>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2006 at 9:33 AM, in message
<200607240933.56209.steve@szmidt.org>, steve szmidt <steve@szmidt.org>
wrote:
> On Monday 24 July 2006 08:23, John Pugh wrote:
>
>> > All other mayor distro's will make security updates and patches
available
>> > for free. Novell charge for that service. This a big part of how
they
>> > make money.
>
>> Not true. Some do and some have a business model identical to
Novell's.
>> The difference with Novell is that we will do everything in our
power to
>> fix all problems in house while the community is trying to do the
same
>> instead of relying on the community to make the fixes so it can be
"sent
>> along" to fix a customer problem.
>
>> > The flaw is really in not letting the user know that updates are
available
>> > unless you subscribe to their service. You can get the 60 day
license, but
>> > once it expires you will not know that there are fixes available.
>
>> Not true, again. You can subscribe to all of the updates and you
can
>> download them individually without paying a dime. Go here
>> http://support.novell.com/suseNotifications/index.jsp (you must
>> have a Novell login - no cost other than some information)
>
> This is good. But we were told by you "You will receive no updates
past the
> eval period, but that's it."
And you won't via the update mechanism. That is true. However, you can
go find and install them at your leisure.
>
> Plus, even though I'm running RC3 and Gold shipped, it still claims
no
> changes
> has been done. My updater says no updates available. So it's easy see
how
> the
> two aligns and paints that picture. (And yes, it is registered with a
key
> from Novell.)
There won't be. As far as the update system is concerned day one is
when gold hit.
>
>> There are many ways to get detail and Novell does not lock anyone
out.
>> You can get and update your system as you wish, however you pay for
the
>> update mechanism not necessarily the update itself and are free to
>> download and apply the updates individually as you see fit. As
mentioned
>> above you can also subscribe to alerts for any or all of our Linux
or
>> other product offering at the URL listed above.
>
> Excellent.! Glad to hear it.
>
>> > Besides from not fitting entirely in how the Linux community is
used
>> > to be able to have a free ride, Novell insist that you pay for
updates. In
>> > all $50 is not very much money for the service. More surprising
really is
>> > that nobody is charging for that. True, in the long run they make
their
>> > investment back as others continue to contribute in different
ways.
>>
>> You are using free completely out of context with the open source
>> community and there are several that work in the same manner as
>> mentioned earlier.
>
> Sorry but I'm using it exactly the way I intended. The word free is
not
> banned
> from normal English use last time I checked. It sounds like you have
the
> idea
> that if the subject touches on OSS, 'free' can only be used one way.
The US is a "free" country, I merely stated that you are using free out
of context. Free can be used as you wish, but when it comes to OSS, free
does not equal free of charge, per se, it equals free to do what I want
to do with it.
>
> We have always had a free, as in no charge, access to GPL'd software.
This
> is
> _one_ of the reasons so many people got involved. No cost to check it
out
> and
> use it for as long and much as you want. Corporate America tends to
think
> that something you don't pay for must be substandard, because they
don't get
>
> the concept of how the model of OSS works. They are to stuck in
thinking
> that
> unless they receive money upfront there will be no other or later
exchange.
I would argue that point. You have not always had free, as in no
charge, access to GPL software. I know of many GPL programs that are not
free of charge...not widely distributed, but not free of charge. The
only way to get it was via purchasing a CD.
Keep in mind, again, you are not paying for the update itself. You are
paying for the use of the update mechanism if you really want to get
technical about it. This is not something that Novell started, just
something that we continued using.
>
> I came from corporate America and was blown away back in - 95 when I
saw what
> Linux offered. Slackware gave me a big thick manual and a CD with
several
> complete development and programming languages for $35. Then for
another $30
>
> I could get four more CD's shipped to me. I had struck gold as far as
I was
> concerned.
But it wasn't free. You paid for it as did I, until I got my netcom
account and was able to FTP Slackware.
>
> My point is that we are used to be able to just go out and get any
distro
> and
> all the s/w for free, as in not paying anyone for accessing it on
their
> servers. (I of course continue this notion of Novell charging for
updates
> based on what you had said earlier.)
>
And you still can get access to SUSE Linux for no charge other than
your time and bandwidth from www.opensuse.org and from
download.novell.com. You can also get access to all of the patches and
updates individually from support.novell.com to your hearts content.
However, in my world, time is money and $50 to save me hours of labor to
download each update individually is well worth the money. My generality
was taken literally and I will be much more careful in the future to
clarify my statements.
As you can tell...I try VERY hard to subvert all of the FUD and myths
that I read/hear. My apologies if I write contentiously, it is not
intended. I'm anal about making sure that correct information is out
there and I work feverishly to ensure it's accurateness.
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