On 6/28/05, Mike Branda <mike@wackyworld.tv> wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 12:38 -0400, Chuck Hast wrote:
> > On 6/28/05, Mike Branda <mike@wackyworld.tv> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > If you want to try to use apt-ish type package management, you need to
> > > install something like "apt4rpm". apt itself handles Debian (.deb?)
> > > style packages and unless they've changed it....to my knowledge it won't
> > > do anything with rpm's or rpm based distros for that matter. The
> > > alternative rpm management is "yum" I think....which RH Fedora was using
> > > unless they've changed that too. YaST does do a good job though. If
> > > you're trying to install the latest Evolution or Evolution-connector
> > > from source, TTBOMK not even apt can help you there (except for geting
> > > the source package I think). The package management system doesn't know
> > > about you trying to custom compile something. They're 2 independent
> > > systems with the exception that after you install the atk-devel
> > > "package" the source ./configure will recognize that the file exists
> > > where it should be.
> > >
> > Yes I know that it does not use the apt manager, that is a Debian package for
> > .deb files. I find that when I use apt-get on my knoppix and debian systems it
> > definitly does fnid all the bits and pieces, whereas with YaST I still
> > have to go
> > out and find things at times, maybe different environments but that is what
> > I have noticed.
> >
>
> But apt-get doesn't manage sources outside of what's in the disro does
> it?? You can't just apt-get chuck.hast-001.src.deb or whatever the
> syntax is for something that they don't have in their package group can
> you?? If so, maybe I really do need to take a super close look at
> Debian. ;^)
I am sure that each package has some sort of listing, I know that when I
pull stuff down with apt-get, I see it come back and tell me that it needs
this and that or at times it is not a need but makes things 'better' so it
"recommends" this or that, but in general the packaging seems more
inclined to get it all in there and you do not appear to have to go back and
get more stuff.
My first go at packages was RedHat, and that was always complaining that
it needed something else, I would use the Red Hat tools and most times
it would get it all but there were many times when I had to go and find
something else, now running SuSE, YaST appears to do much better, but
I also run Knoppix stuff here and had to learn to use apt-get to pull down
the stuff I needed there, well now I have had a chance to test and putz with
3 of them, so far the apt-get tool is the most impressive to my view.
>
> >
> >
> > > > Looks like
> > > > YaST does not deal witih dependencies real well.
> > > >
> > >
> > > See prior statement. YaST does fine with the several thousand packages
> > > it has access to. What I realized along the way is to make an rpm out
> > > of the source once it installs correctly (if it's not included with the
> > > distro or the distro package is way behind the times). Then YaST knows
> > > what to do with it and what dependencies it has via the rpm system. And
> > > it gives you a way to uninstall since some sources don't give you a
> > > "make uninstall" or equivalent.
> > >
> >
> > OK, so what you do is once you have it all in there you create a new rpm
> > of that package with all of it's dependencies so that you do not have that
> > issue later on, or on removal.
> >
>
> Not exactly. I do the ./configure, then the make && make install and if
> there are no errors, I create the .spec file, copy the source and .spec
> to /usr/src/packages/SOURCES and SPECS and then build the rpm. all that
> does is create an rpm package from the source of the specific program
> that is "not" included with the distro. It doesn't fix the dependencies
> but it does give me a package that I can then redistribute easily. You
> can specify the dependencies in the .spec file before building the rpm.
> If they are in "package" form themselves (like atk-devel.version.rpm),
> then YaST will use that info to install the dependencies in the future.
>
> What you may not realize is that there are little elves that sit around
> building these packages for you (at least the ones distributed with the
> distro) each time a new source comes out. They meticulously test it to
> make sure it doesn't break anything else due to the change. Then you
> and I see it if it's O.K. This is why it takes so long for distro's to
> carry the latest KDE or Evolution or whatever. It's this whole process.
> Otherwise you'd basically be running slackware or some other linux where
> everything is compiled from source ( somebody please correct me if I'm
> wrong...).
>
Yes probably the same ones that set around on airplanes and do other sort
of interesting activities...Also related to the ones that are busy doing things
to servers and other hardware that seems to change with no help from the
outside....
> > I like SuSE, it is nice clean and works quite well, but this is the first time I
> > have had to dive for bits and pieces to get something up and running like this
> > under SuSE, I was hoping to find the Evolution 2.2.1.1 rpm so I could do the
> > install from YaST but so far have not been able to get my hands on it.
> >
>
> the evolution-2.2.1-7.src.rpm is available at any one of the SuSE
> mirrors
> (http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/ftp/int_mirrors.html) in the suse/i386/9.3/src dir although a quick try at a build looks like it requires alot of updated packages that are not on my system.
>
> mbranda@it100:~/Downloads> rpmbuild --rebuild evolution-2.2.1-7.src.rpm
> Installing evolution-2.2.1-7.src.rpm
> error: Failed build dependencies:
> gdbm-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> klogd is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> cyrus-sasl-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> e2fsprogs-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> evolution-data-server-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> krb5 is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> krb5-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> mDNSResponder is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> mDNSResponder-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> openldap2-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> pilot-link-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> python-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> update-desktop-files is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
>
I was hoping to get the SuSE package for Evolution I had obtained
the 1.4.x version which installed using YaST without a problem, but
so far all I have been able to find are source tarballs of the latest.
>
> > Paul told me I needed Red Carpet, but when I went to Novell to get it
> > the download
> > page reported a 404, so I guess they have moved it.
> >
Novell makes all manner of references to it.
>
> Umm.....isn't Red Carpet a Red Hat OS thing only??
>
> > Ohh well having to do it
> > the hard way is a education, only thing is that I have had to do a load of this
> > over the past 4 days and I guess I am sort burned and need to back away
> > from it a bit, but the down side is that as soon as I walk away from it I want
> > to walk back and make it work.... So I am my own worse venom...
> >
>
> I agree that I don't like to let the hunk of silica and metal beat me
> but sometimes a break is a good thing.
>
Yea you just have to let it run on autopilot every so often...
-- Chuck Hast To paraphrase my flight instructor; "the only dumb question is the one you DID NOT ask resulting in my going out and having to identify your bits and pieces in the midst of torn and twisted metal."----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
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