Hey I'm new to the whole linux scene and I was
wondering if I should switch from RH ES to Gentoo
because of the package management. I have been told
that Portage is one the best. Any thoughts
appreciated.
--- Chuck Hast <wchast@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/28/05, Mike Branda <mike@wackyworld.tv> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 12:38 -0400, Chuck Hast
> wrote:
> > > On 6/28/05, Mike Branda <mike@wackyworld.tv>
> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > If you want to try to use apt-ish type package
> management, you need to
> > > > install something like "apt4rpm". apt itself
> handles Debian (.deb?)
> > > > style packages and unless they've changed
> it....to my knowledge it won't
> > > > do anything with rpm's or rpm based distros
> for that matter. The
> > > > alternative rpm management is "yum" I
> think....which RH Fedora was using
> > > > unless they've changed that too. YaST does do
> a good job though. If
> > > > you're trying to install the latest Evolution
> or Evolution-connector
> > > > from source, TTBOMK not even apt can help you
> there (except for geting
> > > > the source package I think). The package
> management system doesn't know
> > > > about you trying to custom compile something.
> They're 2 independent
> > > > systems with the exception that after you
> install the atk-devel
> > > > "package" the source ./configure will
> recognize that the file exists
> > > > where it should be.
> > > >
> > > Yes I know that it does not use the apt manager,
> that is a Debian package for
> > > .deb files. I find that when I use apt-get on my
> knoppix and debian systems it
> > > definitly does fnid all the bits and pieces,
> whereas with YaST I still
> > > have to go
> > > out and find things at times, maybe different
> environments but that is what
> > > I have noticed.
> > >
> >
> > But apt-get doesn't manage sources outside of
> what's in the disro does
> > it?? You can't just apt-get
> chuck.hast-001.src.deb or whatever the
> > syntax is for something that they don't have in
> their package group can
> > you?? If so, maybe I really do need to take a
> super close look at
> > Debian. ;^)
>
> I am sure that each package has some sort of
> listing, I know that when I
> pull stuff down with apt-get, I see it come back and
> tell me that it needs
> this and that or at times it is not a need but makes
> things 'better' so it
> "recommends" this or that, but in general the
> packaging seems more
> inclined to get it all in there and you do not
> appear to have to go back and
> get more stuff.
>
> My first go at packages was RedHat, and that was
> always complaining that
> it needed something else, I would use the Red Hat
> tools and most times
> it would get it all but there were many times when I
> had to go and find
> something else, now running SuSE, YaST appears to do
> much better, but
> I also run Knoppix stuff here and had to learn to
> use apt-get to pull down
> the stuff I needed there, well now I have had a
> chance to test and putz with
> 3 of them, so far the apt-get tool is the most
> impressive to my view.
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Looks like
> > > > > YaST does not deal witih dependencies real
> well.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > See prior statement. YaST does fine with the
> several thousand packages
> > > > it has access to. What I realized along the
> way is to make an rpm out
> > > > of the source once it installs correctly (if
> it's not included with the
> > > > distro or the distro package is way behind the
> times). Then YaST knows
> > > > what to do with it and what dependencies it
> has via the rpm system. And
> > > > it gives you a way to uninstall since some
> sources don't give you a
> > > > "make uninstall" or equivalent.
> > > >
> > >
> > > OK, so what you do is once you have it all in
> there you create a new rpm
> > > of that package with all of it's dependencies so
> that you do not have that
> > > issue later on, or on removal.
> > >
> >
> > Not exactly. I do the ./configure, then the make
> && make install and if
> > there are no errors, I create the .spec file,
> copy the source and .spec
> > to /usr/src/packages/SOURCES and SPECS and then
> build the rpm. all that
> > does is create an rpm package from the source of
> the specific program
> > that is "not" included with the distro. It
> doesn't fix the dependencies
> > but it does give me a package that I can then
> redistribute easily. You
> > can specify the dependencies in the .spec file
> before building the rpm.
> > If they are in "package" form themselves (like
> atk-devel.version.rpm),
> > then YaST will use that info to install the
> dependencies in the future.
> >
> > What you may not realize is that there are little
> elves that sit around
> > building these packages for you (at least the ones
> distributed with the
> > distro) each time a new source comes out. They
> meticulously test it to
> > make sure it doesn't break anything else due to
> the change. Then you
> > and I see it if it's O.K. This is why it takes so
> long for distro's to
> > carry the latest KDE or Evolution or whatever.
> It's this whole process.
> > Otherwise you'd basically be running slackware or
> some other linux where
> > everything is compiled from source ( somebody
> please correct me if I'm
> > wrong...).
> >
>
> Yes probably the same ones that set around on
> airplanes and do other sort
> of interesting activities...Also related to the ones
> that are busy doing things
> to servers and other hardware that seems to change
> with no help from the
> outside....
>
> > > I like SuSE, it is nice clean and works quite
> well, but this is the first time I
> > > have had to dive for bits and pieces to get
> something up and running like this
> > > under SuSE, I was hoping to find the Evolution
> 2.2.1.1 rpm so I could do the
> > > install from YaST but so far have not been able
> to get my hands on it.
> > >
> >
> > the evolution-2.2.1-7.src.rpm is available at any
> one of the SuSE
> > mirrors
> >
>
(http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/ftp/int_mirrors.html)
> in the suse/i386/9.3/src dir although a quick try at
> a build looks like it requires alot of updated
> packages that are not on my system.
> >
> > mbranda@it100:~/Downloads> rpmbuild --rebuild
> evolution-2.2.1-7.src.rpm
> > Installing evolution-2.2.1-7.src.rpm
> > error: Failed build dependencies:
> > gdbm-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> > klogd is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> > cyrus-sasl-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > e2fsprogs-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > evolution-data-server-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > krb5 is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> > krb5-devel is needed by evolution-2.2.1-7
> > mDNSResponder is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > mDNSResponder-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > openldap2-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > pilot-link-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
> > python-devel is needed by
> evolution-2.2.1-7
>
=== message truncated ===
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